Barney Scout Mann tells us about his thru-hiking adventures and new Book Journeys North [EP 259]

Barney Scout Mann tells us about his thru-hiking adventures and his new Book Journeys North, a compelling tale of six hikers on the Pacific Crest Trail in 2007.

Show Notes

Introduction to the Outdoors

You would not have predicted it if you'd looked at a little Barney back growing up in West Los Angeles, Culver City, and looked at his parents who were not campers. My parents slept in the outdoors, I think camped out five times their lifetimes. They are now both in their nineties. But what they did do, is starting at age 11, they took me to boy scout meetings and I'm sure I'm not the only one that that's where they got their introduction. I was lucky to have some wonderful men, I'll say their names again, cause I just loved doing it. Mr. Massey, Mr. Quinn, and Mr. Metcalf. And they lead me in the outdoors when my first backpack groups in Culver City at the age of 13. Not even weighing 80 pounds and more than 35 pounds on my back.

Connected with writing in the outdoors

I always had a deep connection to the outdoors. If you plop me down in the middle of anywhere, whether it's desert or high mountains, I feel more, more home in the outdoors.

And out there you get the kinds of you don't get in the city. And in fact, the first one I wrote that got published a couple of years for the backpacker remains unique. It's the only April fools hiking story I've ever seen, it was great. It lit up the internet. And people asked Oh, is this true? Is this really true? Tell us about, yeah, it was fun. I also, in addition to these contemporary stories, I've a real strong interest in trail history.

Your book Journeys North is about hiking the PCT end to end in 2007. That was a much different adventure 13 years ago. What do you think the most significant changes are today?

Well, the answers people expect are usually is that there are way more people and that is true. Maybe 300 folks set out with the intention to through-hike the trail. Last year, 2019 we had real numbers more than 10 times that, over 3,500 people.

But the answer that I give. And the biggest difference I would say is electronics. That's across the whole spectrum in 2007, and this will sound funny today. It was still, it was the tail end of the year when you were embarrassed for others to know that you were carrying a cell phone on the trail in your bounce box. But you can sort of keep it hidden. 2007 was the summer that in July Apple announced their first iPhone and these days it's just like you had a woven blanket electronics weaves its way to everything.


Mentor, mentor, mentor. Look for folks, whether they're contemporaries who have jobs, you'd like to have or folks who have jobs where you'd like to be 10 years from now. Meet them at a conference, reach out to them you know, you can easily find them on Facebook and just say Hey, I'd like to get started. Show them that you've done a little bit of homework. And reach out to 10 of these people and maybe two will respond and all of a sudden. You'll have a friend on the inside.

Favorite Gear

Petzl E-light Headlamp

Journeys North

Pacific Crest Trail Association

Appalachian Trail

Arizona Trail

Trail Angels

Connect with Barney


Journey's North




28:52 – 29:17  Favorite Gear
27:11 – 28:06  Advice


Hey Barney. Welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Yeah. Good to have you on. How's it going tonight? It's going great. Rick, I'm looking forward to it, talking to you when you're your listeners forward to hearing your tales. It's a, as a, as we were talking before the mic got going, it's one of my bucket list adventures to hike the PCT and ends.

[00:00:18] I'm always envious of you guys that have done it sounds super fun. It's fun. It's hard and more poorly. It is literally the journey of a lifetime, but I'll bet. So let's start with how you got introduced to the outdoors. How'd that happen? Well, you would not have predicted it if you'd looked at a little Barney back growing up in West Los Angeles, Culver city and looked at his parents who were not campers.

[00:00:41] My parents slept in the outdoors, I think camped out five times their lifetimes. They are now both in their nineties. But what they did do. Is starting at age 11, they took me to boy scout meetings and I'm sure I'm not the only one that that's where they got the introduction. I was lucky to have some wonderful men.

[00:01:02] I'll say their names again, cause I just loved doing it. Mr. Massey, Mr. Quinn and Mr. Metcalf. And they now lead me in the outdoors when my first backpack grips with tube 19 in in Culver city and at the age of 13. Not even waiting 80 pounds a more than 35 on my back when other 50 miler in Sierra, Nevada.

[00:01:23] Wow. Where'd you go?  These days it's called the golden trout wilderness and dome lamp. Yeah. So that's yeah. Yeah. It's in your backyard. Yeah. I've been there many times. Yeah. Beautiful spot. Great country. Yeah. Yeah. This is the. I'm 69 folks. So this is the middle sixties, I think 65. Wow. What did I seen at the outdoors?

[00:01:46] I'd seen, I'd seen Daniel Boone and David Crawford TV. Yeah. I warned in the fifties, there was a coonskin cap craze, and I wore one of those suckers on my head, but in the Sierra Nevada, I'm out here in the real deal. I could see a bear around the corner.  Beaver slapping their tails and waters and the entire week, you know city point higher work, we saw one other small party of four hikers.

[00:02:15] It was, it was great to be up there. Yeah. Well back then too, there was not that many people out there like today. I mean, it's, it's a wait. We crossed a new army pass, a old army pass, which is in their new Armand past. There was one of those old metal registered containers. And the people who had signed before us 18 months before.

[00:02:41] Yeah. Wow. That's cool. Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. As you know, you were, you were here this summer, so it's a, it's a lot, there was a lot of people and we got, I think specially inundated this summer because of COVID and everybody needed to get out, but there's a lot of people back there. It's good that it's a cm back.

[00:03:01] Isn't it. We just need to do a little better job of helping them use it without much as much impact as going on. But we'll talk about that in a minute, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what inspired you to study law? If in the Scouts you got that into the outdoors? Obviously your F is law in your family or how'd that come about?

[00:03:21] Oh, so great. We're going to put out there right beginning. Hey. This guy's a lawyer.

[00:03:28] I don't think lawyers have the reputation. They did five or 10 years ago. I think I know many great lawyers. So my sister's a lawyer and my niece, her daughter is studying to become a lawyer. So is that like saying, well, many of my friends are lawyers. There's many fine people that are lawyers. And we had three kids and our son and his teen years seemed to just delight in collecting lawyer jokes.

[00:03:54] I sit there and laugh every time he told them. So actually I'll ask them one more question isn't asked and then we'll go back to your original one because. Scout 2.0 or myself 2.0 was illegal legal career just over 25 years and people would ask me, what kind of lawyer are you? Okay. I'd give a fairly unusual answer, especially for litigating, which is what I was that is, I was a kind.

[00:04:22] Lawyer and you don't usually see those two words side-by-side yeah, they, they sure don't admit to that anyway. No. And that was the challenge in my career is it was at the same time zealously representing my client and also being courteous kind and considered, I guess, It did, it was, it was instilled as a fit.

[00:04:49] If we were on trail, I take a half hour to and packed up, but we're not. So go back to your original question is what inspired me and myself a 1.0 in careers was I was a summer camp director for a year director of the summer camp in West Virginia, and then three years out here in our mountains Southern California.

[00:05:09]Near a town of Wrightwood camp all nations. He took 1100 kids over the summer, 110 a time, all inner city. Wow. And so I came straight out of a UCLA degree in mathematics.  It was summer camp director for three years full time. And I came off of that. Wanting another is I called it ivory tower experience or one off the rest of life.

[00:05:35] And I thought LA would be great. I seen this I'm dating myself, but I don't mind doing TV. Oh, I've seen that too. No the movie paper chase. Yeah, that's it. That's, you know, that'd be just like playing test for real and such. I went to law school. I did a single law school to be a lawyer.  But it came out.

[00:05:55] And got a job right away with judges rights judges Lockwood. And then after two years, I was bit by the writing bug bug and I spent three years writing the next great American novel which sits in the closet somewhere.

[00:06:12] No, no, I finished it. I got really interested in New York. I had two ladies for a major house right back. Two pages, single space of how they want it to change. And Rick, I was 27 years old. And what did that? 27 year old Barney scalp man, they keep up. I don't want to do that. So we started having kids now when I was the rest of my life, which hanging up my last single was probably a partner of 20, some odd years, fairly soon.

[00:06:43] And I practice law. Cool. So, so that was how you became an author too then, right? That was my next question. It is. Yeah. I. I love telling stories. And I want to tell stories. I love moving people, having you feel better at the end of the day, having a laugh and cry bringing into bringing you into momentarily feeling what it's really like to be someplace you'd have never an opportunity to be that it's one of these ideas in mind in the book we're gonna be talking about shared resources.

[00:07:18] How many people get the opportunities to through hundred. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Not that many. Yeah. Yeah. More so now, but yeah, more so now, but it's not that many and it's my hope and goal is to take you out there and have you really feel, Oh, that's what it feels like. And I love these people out here. So sort of wrote for the 25 years, I was a I was a lawyer.

[00:07:45] Yeah. Do you do a lot of writing for legal careers, different types, but I'm, they're retired. You know, my partner at that time called me and was expecting somebody out words of wisdom on the table, or what do you think? And today it's actually looked up recently. It's a March 21st, 2010, 10 years ago. Wow.

[00:08:05] And here's the answer not to give him. I told him Steve. I have not thought about it once today, it is my two, o'clock my first deadline for backpacker magazine and that's all I've been thinking. Very cool. Very cool. So how'd you get connected with writing in the outdoors? A few questions because my novel certainly was not writing.

[00:08:30]Always had a deep connection to the outdoors. I feel is probably you do too. I feel you plot me down in the middle of any of the whether it's desert desert high mountains or or of course I feel more, more home in the outdoors they do. If you pop down on us, you know, in a downtown streets, I certainly feel safer.

[00:08:49]And out there you get the kinds of you don't get. Stories. Yeah.  And in fact, the first one I wrote that got published a couple years for the backpacker one remains unique. It's the only, it's the only April fools hiking story I've ever seen and people based on it. It was great. It lit up the internet.

[00:09:11] Oh, is this true? Is this really true? Tell us about, yeah, it was fun. Yeah, I also, in addition to the, the, these contemporary after stories, I've a real storing interest in trail history. You there, Bishop, you've got a, I think there's a moving museum nearby and he got the, he got some real, there's some real history and that next to the woods in in in California.

[00:09:34] Yeah, sir. I was going to say, I had an episode of, well back a guy in town named Andy seltzers is kind of a Norman Clyde buff. So he's knows all the stories of Norma Clyde. So he came on the show and told Norma Clyde stories for hours. So yeah, it's pretty phenomenal rich stories. And the time I really got interested in this story about 2008 through the day A few of these people were still alive.

[00:09:58] So the key people important for Chris trail history, people, you and I would, would not be having our conversation today. But for these folks some of them still alive are in their seventies, seventies, eighties, nineties many of whom had completely fallen off the the radar of the first, the first couple to actually do the entire trail 1959.

[00:10:23] Don and June Mulford and a different on horseback. Oh, well I think I read about that. Yeah. Yeah. If you read about it, you read it on the article by me. Oh, cool. Yeah, because I complete that. They had, cause we fall off Donna died and they take in a movie of this they'd been on national TV shows 1960, and then literally, cause it's not the internet anymore.

[00:10:46] Fell off. And it was so wonderful to reproduce that story, Oregon public broadcasting, that half hour special, and then June in her eighties, was it good public speaker? And she, that would go around and they're inspiring wonderful stories that shouldn't be lost and now they will be we've recorded them.

[00:11:04] We've got preserved for a 16 millimeter film. Perfect. Yeah. Digitize it. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Cool. So, where does all that stuff live? Can people find that, is it on your site or so June stories at both Oregon public broadcasting still has to have our special fewer to Google June Mulford.

[00:11:27] You'd come up with both my article and report new or going in and as well as in the civic, Chris trail associated with communicator. But so I'm, I'm hoping these will be a someday civic horse trail association. We'll devote a little bit more resources and actually open any of the history stories I've written up.

[00:11:44] That'd be great on their website. Yeah. I'll link to that in the show notes too, so people can find it. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So, so you had a writing career. How much writing did you do for some of these magazines and outdoor publications back in the day? Fair amount. Sounds like. Well, the back of the day starts, you know, about 2008 to 2009 it's depressive.

[00:12:04] And I had all these 50 my lines. I think I did a, a dozen, 15 stories fair or going yet right now for backpacker magazine. It's spent 10 or 11 total a lot for for the communicator and other outlets freelance pitching, as well as I have two other books. That are out one on the PCT and the other on the cotton was a vide trail.

[00:12:27] In addition to this present book, a journey story. Yeah. So, so that job was probably the closest you came to a traditional outdoor job. Was your writing correct? Yeah. Well, actually, since I saw that question you've had on this list and I would have said that my summer camp director job was now third job.

[00:12:50] I introduced literally thousand kids every summer. Yeah. These were inner city kids, East Los Angeles, South Los Angeles. Should they have doors for I'm sure the state are now are now those couple thousand and their progeny are part of the great pool of buyers from all our great outdoors.

[00:13:08] Yeah, it's funny. Right. I worked at Palomar mountain in 83, 84. 85. I think when I work, I was working a 16 on the weekends at the outdoor school. They're super fun and yeah. Yeah. Outdoor campus. It's fabulous. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great experience. Yeah. Good way to turn those kids on. And we had dinner, we had inner city kids as well.

[00:13:28] So your inner city kids came from the LA area mostly. Yeah.  The campus free they usually have a sponsoring organization. They come. And what was really neat aside, these kids show that this is their first exposure. They were all lower social economic. But they were kids largely Hispanic and in Canada and a black Harley and at home, if one of them was walking into the other neighborhood, they were in deep trouble.

[00:13:57] Right. But here. There in our camp, our church here, you know what their default personally is position this work where I used to reach out. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. We did that at Palomar. We mixed the inner city kids with the kids from LA Jolla and whatnot. It was a super fun. They get off the bus though, man, their eyes were wide open and you know, Oh, cool.

[00:14:19] That's pretty cool. So your book journeys North is about hiking. The PCT. And to end in 2007. That was a, but sorry, that was a much different adventure 13 years ago. What, what do you think the most significant changes today? Well the answers people expect are usually it's there's way more people and that is true. Are your Maybe maybe 300 folks set out with the intention to through hike. Yeah. Last year, 2019 that we had real numbers more than 10 times that over 3,500 people today, we see them roll through Bishop, starting about April.

[00:15:02] But the answer that I give. And this is someone I to hike the Chris trail in 2007, I did this CDT in 2015, kind of a bike trail and to hike the Appalachian trail in just only three years ago. And the biggest difference I would say is electronics. That's that's across the whole spectrum in 2007, and this will sound funny today.

[00:15:28] It was still, it was the tail end of the year when. You were embarrassed for others to know that you were carrying a cell phone on the trail and you bounced it in your bounce box, you know, you can sort of keep it hidden. 2007 was the summer that in July Apple announced their first iPhone and these days it's just, it's, it's like you had a woven blanket.

[00:15:53] And electronics weaves its way to everything. Yeah, because you now have this you have this phone and so those don't carry paper maps, but the number of people carry state maps, especially on a a, a long trail is, has gone down to a few percent. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's on that cell phone. Yeah. Back in the day we had all the Topo maps jammed in.

[00:16:18] You had a piece of walking from one map to another, where the hell are we? Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. And then your connectivity. Yeah, we should try it at, at Forster past the highest point of the PCT and not unusual thing these days. No books would be sitting that looking around there is they they've, they've tightened the text message and they're walking to find the one spot and forced a password hold the buy in and people will sit at night, no walking along the trail.

[00:16:52] There'll be plugged in, in the snake tool podcast. It's to a book on the 18th, in a shelter. Th the the the gut hook guy often says, what's your what's your internet coverage that night? Yeah. I've seen that. Yeah. I've seen that question a lot. Yeah. Yeah. What so back in 2007, obviously you cooked, when you did the Appalachian trail recently, were you, did you take a stove?

[00:17:14] Cause one of the things I found interesting, I picked up a few PC tears. I think it was last summer. Give him a ride to Reno and they didn't take stoves. They had, they had the cold soaking method going on and I was just like, man, I can't do it without a cup of coffee in the morning. You're you're seeing a higher and higher percentage than 2007.

[00:17:32] I don't, I can't think of anyone who it cold. And I've six, seven years ago that there's some really some of the well-known ultra lighters, the long distance guys who first started Scott waits, who did the first yo-yo single year two ways. And he States he's a cold hiker and these days maybe make up as much as, you know, 20%, which is a lot, but I've always cooked and not my coffee.

[00:17:59] I see, you know, I don't drink that and I do a cold breakfast, my breakfast, I Is tends to be a pop tart and let's put it into my Pop-Tart boarder, which is my pocket somewhere after an hour, I realized I do need to eat. So I start pulling it out. Yeah, same. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I got to have warm food. Yeah.

[00:18:16] So you and why for also trail Rangers angels. Tell, tell our listeners about that. What do you guys typically do? So we have a house. And our kids had moved out of it. And it's a good sense house, a good size backyard. And in 2006, the year before we the year before we did our own two Heights, we opened up her house and hosted a 17 starting piece of T taking a pier port, create station, feed him one night, two nights any distance required the trail.

[00:18:46]Everyone needs to get fuel because you can't fly with a 60 in the morning drive map.  The year we did it ourselves, 2007, we actually had 35 people. Wow, cool. And the year we came back, the numbers because word got out and such, and we were actually cleared up a few places. We had over a hundred.

[00:19:05] Wow. And every year, since then, literally between a third and 40% of that year's class over two months or so stays in the house, which in 2019, We had over 1200 people stay with us. Wow. So what period of time does that ha that just happens over the month when everybody's starting out typically. Yeah.  Just, there were two just over two months mid-March to remain.

[00:19:30] Yeah. And we'd have a pool of over 80 volunteers who help out. This is all free and we had so much kindness come our way. It's fun. . Yeah, we really get to have a chance to make a positive impact and folks to the very vulnerable and exciting and frightening. That's great. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:48] That's awesome. And so now when you take them into town, I guess the only opportunity to buy gears REI. Right? Well, this year we used to with venture 16 we actually had a standing relationship with him. They would send over a van every day. Eight passenger pickup pickup folks who still need the last mid-year purchase, especially a lot of the internationalist itself.

[00:20:15]And they would also, because we're producing a lot of recycling and a lot of trash, a lot hard work. They pick up that take it to their, to their storage. It was a really good relationship. They went specifically we worked with them and they would specifically stock things for two hikers. They had a couple of freebies data, treat us all to a pizza dinner one night, a year.

[00:20:37] Yeah. It was a great relationship. And we had set that up with the local REI in 20, 20 this year. But of course COVID happened. March 15, we ever had over 1200 people signed up, stay with us and we had to tell them just like everyone else not to share. We love you all, but not this year. No, we still had a few coming through here.

[00:20:58] So you still get out along the trail. What's what's your next adventure? Yeah, two answers, one, whatever she wants. Smart. We are 43 years married. Good lucky guy. But my last two long hikes. Have been largely mean she did 600 miles in the CDT and dat, she came out a number of times. But a lot of really make sure that we're knocking off her bucket list too.

[00:21:26] But the next long hike I have on my radar screen is maybe next spring, because it's hard to say whether it will be able to host hikers again, do it safely. And if we don't, I'll distract myself. And I'd like to do the Arizona trail, but 800 miles from the border of Mexico to the North end of Arizona.

[00:21:47] Really intrigues me. Yeah. That's a good idea. I had a guy on the show a while back that ran that trail, I think. Yeah. Pretty interesting thing. Yeah. So speaking of all the impact and so foreseeing, do you have any thoughts on how those of us that are in the industry can help mitigate the impact we're seeing educate these people or.

[00:22:04] No on what the answers are, but it's probably not, not any one answer, actually. Yeah. So that's, it's not just industry it's across the board. I'm I was the board chair instead of across trailer association for three years, these days. And I'm a board president for national you it's well we're all trying to do is deliver a consistent message.

[00:22:29]Trying to dampen down the the outbreaks, the outbreaks of people flinging heat attendance, other, I mean, this year, the the PCT, you had a lot of people really wanting to get out and you had a few that did maybe 10%, you know, three, 400 actually dig it out this year. And you had people saying, Oh, you shouldn't We're going to stay.

[00:22:52] We're all trying to do the best right now that we can. And so this is especially an important time to be pushing positive, positive messages, success. Those who are and looking a bit more local, every one of our areas have all of which uses outdoor gear everywhere. I was I was on a TV show.

[00:23:18] In Chicago, what's the deal? What are local hikes? I'm across the country. And in, in minutes I had great local hikes they're all over. And so I would encourage afterwards the streets to be emphasizing local, getting outdoors being thoroughly aware. You're getting a new audience. As well as a whole more people fanning the flames of that in the positive way.

[00:23:47] So it's a great time to maybe reaching out and doing some tie-ins to to those who are doing the training with the Sierra club, boy Scouts maybe, you know, there's lots of trail organizations and I'm also hoping to get out. Yeah, that the outdoor industry, but one of the ones that will we'll understand and I think should survive pretty well.

[00:24:08] Yes. Yep. Yep. And I think it's critical to, to support the, all the agencies that help, you know, a forest service and BLM and all those folks to clean the bathrooms and manage the trails. Cause those things, as a friends here that work for the local forest service and there they're just they're have any money, they can't do anything, you know, and it's, we've got to figure out a way to turn things around so that they can do their job.

[00:24:29] So, yeah. Well, one of the things that's actually happening on the ground, is that a good part of the make of, of trail HD space is private volunteers. Yeah, that goes on a lot. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bunch of groups here. Yeah. Civic trail association under their auspices 100,000 trail maintenance hours last year.

[00:24:52] Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Awesome. And a lot of times we're working with the outdoor industry partners in that. That's cool. So let's shift gears a little bit. Do you, what what what other outdoor activities do you participate in? You biked? Yeah. What, you know, paddling it's a little bit, you know, I I've been I've been a jogger outdoors since since I was 20 1871.

[00:25:16] Wow. Four or fives four to six times a week. Yeah,

[00:25:24] exactly. I don't get out there maybe three miles at a time, but it wasn't able be able to still do it 20 miles, 20 miles plus stays on the trail, which I love. Yeah. That's great. And do you have any advice or suggestions for folks wanting to get into the outdoor biz or get into hiking or. You know maybe joining the PCT, how do they join some of these, you know, eight non-profits that we have to help?

[00:25:51]You've asked three different questions, outdoor biz. I'll pick that one up first. And I've got one mentor, mentor, mentor. Look for folks, whether they're contemporaries who have jobs, you'd like to have, look for folks. Who have jobs where you'd like to be 10 years from now, meet him at a conference, reach out for them you know, based easily find them on Facebook and he'll just pop them as in, you know, Hey, I'd like to get started, maybe spectral show, show them that you've done a little bit of homework.

[00:26:22] Right. And often, you know, you send out 10 of these and maybe two will respond and all of a sudden. You'll have a friend on the it side. Yeah.

[00:26:34]Second was or actually the third was, was non-profits. Yeah. And if you who are not a member of at least one outdoor or one trail non-profit please do. So, you know, I'm present the partnership national trail system. We are the umbrella group for up 30 national scenic and historic trails. So there's not just the PCT, the 80 and the CBT.

[00:26:53] There are 30 of them. Become a $50 supporter, please partnership lots of local groups. And then once you become a member, you'll hear about alcohol. Obviously many of you have areas of expertise. You can really, really make a significant difference by showing up. That's a good idea. Yeah. That's a good advice.

[00:27:16] Yeah. What's your favorite outdoor gear purchase under a hundred dollars? Well, I can tell the one that has given me the most pleasure over the years, actually there's two of us but the pencil elide. So the PCT I carried an 11 grand 11 gram is the weight of the writer on three Petty's light. So it was one little deal.

[00:27:36] It's where the size of a key chain, the guy, because I'm an ultra MITRE. I think there's a, there's a a program for ultra binders. I know the wig programs have far too many things and that's a. Yeah, it's, it's a sickness, but the was carrying 1100. You have good knees because you manage all that weight.

[00:28:02] I don't want to carry 35 pounds at age 13. I'm so curious. Live your life. And like I saw. I had headlamp empty. I saw a guy about file 1500 gives this little Pennsylvania. It only weighs. Now it's 28 grams and boy, he can do so much more and you know, a night hike with it. And it's only 28 cramps. So it isn't an outfitter in a Shasta city.

[00:28:29] I went in there. Well, my pet silver light, which I still have. And I love, it feels like a luxury item. Yeah, that's a good one. What was the other one? You had another one. Yeah.  And that's we, we switched over from from the homemade alcohol stove. Eight that's, another, you know, another change just in the trail and pick up to seven.

[00:28:50] 80 and PCT, but 80% of people were using less than one ounce to two bottoms of a Pepsi can alcohol. So what we did there was it didn't take lessons. But with, with fires and stuff, everyone is switched awake. They are unsafe, it was a dark field. And so when I switched over to the standard screw on a canvas for stove.

[00:29:19] Yep. Those are good. Which one do you have?

[00:29:23] I have a titanium, sorry to say Chinese under one ounce. Yeah. I, I, I love it. Yeah, because it's seven, eight, seven. Now it works. I have used it the entire CBT and the entire 18 at times, cooking for two, when my wife was with me other times for one, and it costs 25 bucks. It takes you to the eight weeks to get delivered from, from, from out of the country.

[00:29:56] I love that. Yeah. I got one from Mark Hill that I bought years ago and I won't give it up. It's just, you know, smarter than the, even the ones they have today. It's, it's just one of the lines of things I could find. So I stick with it. Yeah. What are some of your favorite books? Whether they be hiking or outdoors, obviously your book has gotta be up there.

[00:30:12] I can't wait to dig into that here in another week or so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in addition to mind, journey, story, a bliss, a blistered kind of love husband and wife. Each alternate chapters, my wife and I actually read it out loud to each other. Switching more recent again, PCT book. I promise not to suffer five years ago.

[00:30:33]One woman who had no idea if he'd ever do it through hype and her husband, drags, saturates, just free time and writes for the wheel. And the last one, the outdoors there's a lot of this last point is a very recent thirst by Heather Anderson. There's it's a story of her of her sitting a fastest known time on the PCC and even more so, but that's great.

[00:30:55] But what I love about it is the backstory that this Heather graduated high school is a 200 pound or you're eating a woman who never would have thought, wow. Wow. And sure she is today. A world-class athlete and hiker and quake. Right. That's very cool. Yeah. Good. We're willing to show notes. Yeah. Great.

[00:31:17] And then my two all time books are probably John Irving cider house schools. He wrote the book was people know him for the world, according to cart, and then Pat Connor to lift prints tags. So these are the big rollicking storytellers great stories. Great writers. Yeah, those are good.

[00:31:37] Yeah. If you could have a banner at the entrance to one of the outdoor adventure trade shows, what would it say? Easy? I would say two words. You would say. I love it. Love it. I was interviewing the guy that Todd Walton recently, and that was one of his, one of their mottos is ski kind this year.

[00:31:59] Yeah. It's just, you know, that's, that's a, that's comes up a lot is kindness. This these days, just to, we all do our thing and you know, we do it our way and. Even if it's not the best way, you don't have to be a jerk about explaining or educating someone on how there might be a better way to do it, but be kind.

[00:32:17] Yeah. I love that. And kindness, greets kindness just as the opposite does too, for, for the entire five months of 2007, that my wife and I were out there at the trail. We we'd leapfrog and be around video. There's a decent number of people. And sometimes the most awful of circumstances, I never was heard someone say a MI or unkind word to another.

[00:32:45] Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's good. As we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say or ask of our listeners? Well, I spent, yeah, I spent 10 years in journeys, North. And it's not your, your, your typical outdoor memoir. Yeah, you'll, you'll get scenery. The trail to anything is another character or what it is.

[00:33:07] It's a people story and I will I will take you into having a dinner and an outhouse and enjoying it. I will take you whether you're a hiker and and for moments you'll experience with like, to be out there. Huh? On 21st century wellness attorney and I'll make an apology in advance is once you hit the last third, I might keep you up late at night.

[00:33:33] So folks, I really hope you'll give journey starts a chance. I wrote it for you. Cool. Well, we'll link to that in the show notes. Yeah. I can't wait to dig in it's. Who did the artwork on the cover? That's beautiful. So the artwork is one of the the only time mountaineers books publisher. Can we call commissioning?

[00:33:48]Commissioning artists to do the art we can cover will be Kaufman. Okay. A well-known West coast painter and he did there. He's a beautiful job. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, we'll put a link to that in the show notes, so people can go pick it up and make it their reading for the next few months.

[00:34:06]Where can people find you if they'd like to follow up? I'm easy as my name is Barney scout, man, each each one spilled normally Manske with the two ends at end. So my website is Barney scalp, man.com.  Social media like Instagram, the best it posts some things there. And that's under the book titled the period between it such journeys dot North.

[00:34:27] Cool. And you can. Please, you have to pick up a copy of the link to it. Either Amazon, your local independent bookstore, or you can get a signed copy for me at no extra cost on my website. Yeah. Well we'll then call us up in the show notes. Well, it's been great talking to you. Hope to see you next time he come through Bishop.

[00:34:44] Rick I'll make a point, but I'm not sure whether I'll stop at a shots bakery first or a stopped by the time. Hey, go to shots, Bruce, or I'll meet you at shots. How about that? That's better yet better yet? Yes, sir. Sounds good. Thanks for coming on. It's been a real pleasure. All right, bye bye.


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